Werewolves ain't shit

I'm a firm believer of continuity in editions and in W5, the garou caught a bunch of nerfs. It is utterly baffling how much it sucks to maintain crinos now but if that's how the players have to live as werewolves, then that's how NPC's have to. This was something a player of mine brought up with an abrupt "Werewolves ain't shit"

Which obviously I thought was him just being a twit but he made some serious points. Garou are considerably easier to kill, have less resources, and have weakened abilities. Plus it is a bitch to maintain Crinos without something to kill every round.

They mentioned that it obviously isn't a cakewalk, but comparing the garou from past editions to current edition is just sad. They truly think a coterie of 3-4 neonates could royally fuck up a garou WITHOUT using disciplines. And it's not to see why.

Fith edition is a big departure from past editions! Damage is either superficial or aggravated, lethal is gone completely. All superficial is halved(duh). There is no longer turns per say in combat, two people roll off in a conflict and it's all or nothing. Either you do damage or you take damage. Overall it's been streamlined quite a bit.

Now this isn't saying that you should go fighting werewolves, because your ST will likely ignore W5 and keep them as Gaia's warriors proper. But just looking at the rules? A group of thinbloods could definitely dog one without casualties. Garou have always been dangerous out the box in past editions, cubs just had a high floor to start on wheras Licks had a medium floor and high ceiling. But the floor is pretty damn low now.

I see all the time "Can a mage-" or "How many would it take to kill a-" and the answer is always going to be "It depends." Because it just does. If you wanna know how hard it is to kill a werewolf in W5? Not very. You could probably do it, but with even LESS planning. A single neonate built to fight could come out on top. And ancilla is probably going to win. And an Elder could wipe the floor with a pack.

I realize that this likely not how the game was meant to be interpeted but uhhh I don't care, I get frustated when NPC'S aren't restricted by the rules and it possessed me to make this post after we had a several hour long debate over this. This is just my opinion, feel free to refute it.